Notes from Seventy-first Playtest

Beejell and Cybil

This was a playtest of the new simplified hunting system with two players who do not have a D&D background. They had struggled with the old system but were very happy with the new one.

You can also see from the photograph how the new cards fit nicely along one side of the board.

Simplified Hunting, Sample Turns

The new simplified hunting system has cut my pictorial sample turns down from 5 pages to 4. I need to find fresh players to teach the game, but I do think a 20% reduction in explanation effort is not unrealistic.

Sample Turns (1mb pdf)

Notes from Seventieth Playtest

Mini Equipment Cards shown with
Goal card, a pawn, and a meeple

This play-through was a test of the new mini equipment cards. Now in most games I'd never want to see these "Hobbit" size cards, but since they are equipment that sits on the table the whole game, it works. I actually bumped up the font size for the most used information.

Update Equipment Cards

Changes for the new combat system

1. The number you need to roll is in large print on the equipment card, rather than calculated using a number there and on the animal disk.
2. The damage the weapon does is in hearts, rather than a number and an icon.

Graphic Design Updates

1. The information you need while hunting is larger, and in a contrast color (white)
2. The number of dice you roll is right next to the number you need to make
3. The cards themselves are smaller, 1.75" x 2.5", so they'll take up less space on the table (equipment is never held in your hand in this game)
4. Font sizes are unified, only two now (9pt and 13pt)
5. The cost is labeled, so you don't have to match the symbol on the score track to figure out what it means.
6. The name of the item has been deemphasized in favor of having the largest possible photo.

Simplified Animal Disk

Here is an updated deadly animal disk. I've removed a bunch of numbers and symbols since equipment now handles the "what you need to roll" side of combat. Numeric life values have been replaced with hearts, and the meat and hide trade values have been moved up top.

Also, based on popular request, I've added a red ring around the deadly animals. This may not hold up well in the printing process, which is why I didn't do it before, but it's worth a shot. It may be more of a crescent shape than a ring, depending on cutter accuracy. But The Game Crafter has been getting better and better, so I'll take the risk.

Any feedback before I apply this throughout all the diagrams in the rulebooks? I'm still trying to come up with good icons for meat and hide, I almost decided to write out the full words in tiny text.

Notes from Sixty-ninth Playtest

Two player game with Cybil.

What we tried

1. Simplified combat math - roll the number on the weapon,
2. Animals don't move when wounded by weapon or torch,
3. Don't collect new your new goal until re-spawning that character.

Conclusion

I like this new combat system. Not having to do any math speeds play along. Weapons are still variable power relative to each other, each weapon is just more similar to itself when hunting different animals.

Next Steps

I'm going to update the graphic design on the animal tiles so that there are hearts for life, removing 2 numbers (3 digits) from each.

I'll also update the equipment cards to a smaller size which will fit better on the table.

Lastly, I'll update the rules. I'll get to trim out a bunch (with these changes I've even removed the knife). Once it's been proofread again I'll update the game on Game Crafter.

Notes from Sixty-eighth Playtest

Eddy rolls 3 ones,
the next turn I did the same!

Simplified Combat, Take 2

What we tried:

1. "to hit" number on the weapon (less math!)
2. wounded animals don't move
3. if multiple weapons are used, weapons are selected before rolling. If either misses against a deadly animal, the character dies.

The game plays even smoother with so much of the math removed from combat, but the weapons retain their distinction, and characters still die. Man do they die. I died twice, Eddy three times, and Lester 4. Lester almost won with the Speaker for the Dead goal!

Notes:

I'll also remove the animal movement when wounded with a torch. That will remove the animal movement rules entirely, and also clear up an odd exception where you could drive an animal away and explore the same spot again.

Next Steps:

Get in another playtest or two, update the equipment (smaller cards), and rules.

Streamlined Combat

Today's experiment:

Remove half the math from the combat system, while retaining as much game balance as possible.

Instead of having the number that you need to roll on the disk, and the bonus to your die roll on the weapon, I averaged out the odds of hitting in the old system, and put the number you need to roll on the card. The life/damage numbers are changed to more visually oriented to hearts.

Initial Thoughts:

The weapons seem more normalized. The club got a lot more use even without its special power. The deadly animals felt less scary. I guess even though with the old system the highest you'd ever need to roll is a 12 (with the +1 from a club), it's still scary to see a Wolf with its 13 to hit.

The game plays very fast, closer to 30 minutes with 5 players. Definitely time to try it out with 36 tiles instead of 24.

Left to right: Eddy, Dan, Kris, Lester

In the Wild

A couple seedy looking fellows playing Hunt or Gather in a bar.

GenCon 2012

Hunt or Gather Demo at the Game Crafter booth

Rules Rewrite

Published an update to the rules today. After getting feedback from 4 "blind playtest" groups I re-worked the rules so the game would be easier to learn for the first time without anybody there to teach it. I got the rules reviewed edited by a third editor, and also proofread by another person. Here they are:

• Hunt or Gather Rules.pdf

Tomorrow I'll order a few copies to put together and send out for another round of playtesting and review.

Initial Reviews

There are a couple great reviews of Hunt or Gather up on The Game Crafter. One is from a playtester, but one who did not work with me on the game and learned it directly from the rules, and the other is from the print-on-demand publisher where it is featured as a staff pick!


"...There's enough strategy to keep you engaged, but not so much you need to obsess over every decision. In other words, it's the kind of game that's actually fun to play.

The game's competitive, but not mean spirited. You can't hurt your opponent directly, though the rules encourage you to tell white lies here and there. Hunt or Gather favors trickery, strategy, and out-of-the-box thinking, which makes victory all the sweeter..."

-Erin Snyder


"This is a great game that works well whether you're a group of two or a group of five. Most games that are designed for two player don't scale as well when you go up to larger groups, but this one does a great job.
...
You know you've picked a good game when your friends ask to play it again. And H||G got played three times in one day with my particular group. For that reason I give the game 5 stars."

-JT

For the full text of these reviews visit the Hunt or Gather page on Game Crafter.

Sample Turns

Download a story and rules explanation (with lots of photos!) of a few samples turns of this game:

Hunt or Gather Sample Turns.pdf (1.2mb)

Here is a sample photograph:

Hunting a bear

Frequently Asked Questions

Here are the FAQs from the latest edition of the rules:

Q: What disks do I have to show everyone when I explore?

A: Deadly animals must always be revealed.

Q: What’s the easiest way to tell deadly animals from non-deadly animals?

A: The deadly animals have dark backgrounds.

Q: Can I lie about what disk I just found?

A: Yes, if it’s not a deadly animal.

Q: Can a hunter use a torch?

A: No, but a hunter can carry a torch to exchange with a gather.

Q: Can I move back to village and score on same turn?

A: Yes, but you may not explore any spaces on the way.

Q: When do I get to pick up more equipment?

A: Any time a character leaves the village.

Q: When a character dies, do I lose any claimed spaces?

A: You get to keep claimed spaces, and disks that have already been scored.

Friends and Family Blind Playtests

Playtest reports are coming in from friends and family back east. I sent out 5 copies of the game for them to learn by reading the rules, rather than me teaching it in person.

I've gotten some very useful feedback that will translate directly into a better new edition of the rules. I'll be re-working the first couple pages to provide a higher level overview and describe how the components are used as they are introduced. I've also got some work to do simplifying the descriptions of hunting and scoring exploration disks. Thankfully everyone was able to figure it out without much trouble once they had the pieces in front of them.

Notes from Sixty-sixth Playtest

A five player game.

Observations:

Getting yourself killed a lot is a powerful (but unsatisfying) strategy, especially in 5 player.

More starting equipment was great for 5 player, where you really don't have time to ramp up (trying own # of players +1 points). I'll have to try a game with 2 players where you only get 3 points worth of equipment.

Equipment cost change worked well, players used a variety of weapons. (Atlatl down to 3 from 4, spear up to 2 from 1).

To Try:
When you die you only get 1 goal instead of choosing from 2.

Scale the number of points per goal down a bit. Playing well should still win over dying a lot.

Double-sided Card Improvements

The first time I set up the game at a company picnic I put the stack of arrow cards upside down. So it was clear that I needed a stronger distinction between the back and front of the double sided cards. I realized later that in addition to adding stronger notice that a shot had been used up, I didn't need the equipment cost or hunter/gatherer restriction information on the back side of the Arrows and Spears:

It was also pointed out that "flip" could mean turn upside down, or flip over to the back side, so I designed a little icon that will hopefully help.

Notes from Sixty-fifth Playtest

Dan "Wolf Bait" Grayson pulls a tie out of nowhere

This game continues to surprise us. Dan, living up to his playtest nickname, went out gathering and found every wolf in the game all right around the village, and got himself killed 3 times. But with those 3 deaths came 3 extra secret goals, which he somehow accomplished with only 4 disks collected, and those goals translated into a surprise win in a tight 4 player game.

Of course Kris, bitter at being caught by surprise, figured out how Lester could use his Copy Cat goal to score a single point from one of Dan's goals, bringing up the need for a tie break rule.

Other fixes: We found a printing error on the deer tile, the "to hit" number was 12 instead of 10. I should make note of the number you need to roll to escape a deadly animal on the player aids. I might even consider putting "draw 2, keep 1" on the goal cards. I also want to add a graphic to remind players that arrows and spears should be flipped over when used. I also want to re-think the disk and player colors. The orange and red score cubes are too close in color, and the green disks look like player colors. I want to use white for the exploration disks, and green for a player color if possible, then I can use black for village value, village, and tar pits.

I might do some more tweaking of the equipment. I'm thinking about adding a 5th pouch so that the last player has the option of getting one, should all the players before him pick one up. But that brings up another issue. My playtest team's "group think" is currently that pouch + spear is the best opening equipment choice. And this may well be true, a pouch makes gathering much easier, buying you more time to wait for the village demand to be right. The spear, while not the best odds to hit, works against a large variety of animals. And if the character does die you get another 3 points worth of equipment (more than the 1 the spear cost) and a choice of a new goal.

What I'm considering is raising the cost of the spear to 2 points, and lowering the atlatl down to 3. That still keeps spear+atlatl beyond the starting equipment allotment, but leaves it a viable strategy. But I'll have to look at what the new viable openings would be. Maybe it would be best if players were given fewer starting options to encourage people to have to go back for more equipment rather than play out the game with their initial choices.

Notes from Sixty-fourth Playtest

First play with the new pieces from The Game Crafter. I've got some notes for the rules to add about assembly instructions. Glad it doesn't take too long to put the stickers on the disks, so I'll feel fine sending games directly to my blind playtest groups once I touch up the rules.

The game itself was a little lopsided at first, my goal was Crack Shot, so I did a little gathering, then poached a few small animals. All without incident, building a line down the side. Meanwhile, Dan was doing a good job impaling himself on wild boar tusks. But at the same time he was collecting secret goals and leaving me to work the market solo. In the end it came down to a 2 point game, and he could have won with the Master Scout goal, had he remembered that 6th tile was the boar I drove off with a torch.

It's great that the game plays are still fun and surprising, and the secret goals help balance out runs of bad luck.

Print On Demand

First print on demand copy of the game!